Nathan Sack  00:00
Thanks for joining us for another Faith Horizons podcast. The purpose of a Faith Horizons podcast is to discover the kingdom of God in Kansas City one conversation at a time. I was excited to get the opportunity to interview Michael and Kimberly Miller of Empire Dreams. I really cannot say enough about the heart of these two people. Both Michael and Kimberly bring hard won understanding and compassion to those they serve. Empire Dreams takes a practical approach to changing lives in reviving neighborhoods, one person at a time. Whether working with an individual’s finances, life choices, or helping that same individual start a new business, Empire Dreams focuses on the whole person. Take the time to listen and meet the people behind an organization I believe will play a key role in rebuilding the ancient ruins of this beautiful Kansas City. Both Michael and Kim work together to bring different solutions to long standing issues in our city. Here’s my conversation with Michael and Kimberly Miller. Well, I’d like to welcome Kimberly and Michael Miller to the Faith Horizons podcast. Today we’re going to be talking about Empire Dreams. Just so excited about talking about Empire Dreams. Well, welcome.

Michael Miller  01:23
Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Nathan Sack  01:25
So just give us a brief overview of what Empire Dreams is. Whoever wants to speak. And just let us know kind of the kind of like, what is the purpose of Empire Dreams? And then what was the initial problems that you’re trying to solve and the solution you’re trying to bring?

Kimberly Miller  01:45
So yeah, so the mission of Empire Dreams is to support the development and sustainability of thriving and empower communities in Kansas City’s urban core. And so that’s kind of like our fancy term. And that’s what we’re really trying to do. We live in Kansas City’s urban core, it’s our people, it’s our community, we see a lot of the problems that our community faces a lot of systems and structures that can hinder them from growth or stability, or just entering into the fullness of their potential. Their calling, their destiny. And so we have developed an innovative grassroots holistic model of community development. And so yeah, so we go in and target low-income housing projects, and really look for the hidden unseen entrepreneurs and leaders in Kansas City’s urban core, and we support them to growth.

Michael Miller 02:35
Another part of it also is really grassroots. So, for example, we just did an accelerator I, I would like to think of it more as an incubator, because an accelerator is like people already have established IBM Business or marketplace. But with these, these were more entrepreneurs, like people who had dreams, but didn’t know how to put those dreams on paper, pitch it and actually get to the marketplace to even have that. So it was more than incubated to where it was more about birthing, holistic entrepreneurs who actually take the idea, get it on paper. And the thing that gets lost for most of us is we just think it’s so easy to just go from idea, go get a loan go make it happen. Well, you’re dealing with generational poverty, you’re dealing with second, third class poverty, like older generations, you know what I mean? So they need a lot more encouragement, a lot more investment, and it’s not the snap of the fingers. Well, you didn’t do right the first second time, so get out of the way. And that’s become kind of a predatory system in America. And it’s infiltrated a lot into the minds of Christians. Like we don’t really combat that because we we’ve learned to be almost too much in the role of Chaldeans as opposed to just learning how to operate that way.

Nathan Sack  03:45
Yeah. So why did you guys decide to start Empire Dreams? What was the lead up to this organization and some of your backstory because I know that you didn’t just didn’t just happen, you know, a lot of times these ministries, or these businesses are the result of are kind of like the fruit of our life.

Kimberly Miller 04:06
Yeah, so I’ve always worked with families in urban settings and environments, been in Kansas City for about 14 years, maybe just always in the community, working with families did social services for about the last 10 years worked for a local nonprofit, and, and even before that, throughout all those years, I’ve always just had a gifting for developing programs, to programs that are solutions to societal problems in the community. And they always were, like a rehab center for men and woman coming out of prison workforce training programs, just kind of a gifting. And so being in the nonprofit sector and seen a lot of the inefficiencies and ineffectiveness of that system, and how it wasn’t actually empowering our community, but really enabling them to remain kind of stuck in the same mindsets, same conditions and that no one really got to know the people was kind of like, you know, we’re better than we come in, we save them. We take our data points, we do our metrics so we can get more funding. And it was like, no, the only way our community is going to transform is if we walk hand in hand with them, and we build intentional relationships. So yeah, a few years ago, the Lord woke me up in the middle of the night was like, Hey, Kim, I want you to start an organization called Empire Dreams and told me what it was. And at the time, I was really discouraged. I had been working on a few other nonprofits, and I kept having kids. Part of our story was always like, to the point I’m about to launch and then I had a baby.

Michael Miller  05:35
That whole tricky business being married.

Kimberly Miller  05:39
We had been working on this housing initiative for a while and just was like, come on Jesus, I have like 10 different business plans. Like, if you give me one more business idea that I can’t make happen, like, I’m done, right? And so just kind of put it on a shelf, and was like, Okay, I’m gonna do this one day. And then I lost my job this past March 2021. And whole nonprofit sector stuff. And at the time, the Lord said, I had a week to finish a grant for the city with this nonprofit, I was accepted into a program to develop it, and was just like, Okay, I know, the Lord’s telling me to do this random friend of ours called hadn’t talked to him for years and was like, Hey, God just told me you’re gonna start a nonprofit. I was like, I am. I’m doing it right now. And so but yeah, so we really, for me, it was like, I don’t need to start another nonprofit, right? We aren’t Kansas City is littered with endless nonprofits. And so unless it’s something from the heart of God, built by Him, structured by Him, envisioned by Him. And we’re able to actually come in and do something transformative that I haven’t seen in the past. I was like, I don’t have the energy to do this. I’ll just don’t join another nonprofit, but really felt like God gave us a vision for organic community development, building out a lot of curriculums, a lot of programming. Everything’s really grassroots, knowing the community being in the community. And so we’re just trusting the Lord. To yeah, just trusting Him. Because at the end of the day, I’m like, this is a lot of work. But yeah, so that was just Yeah, a lot of my past and my upbringing, identify with what it is to be broken, what it is to have no hope, what it is to have a lot of trauma, and to also see the destiny and hear the destiny of God over my life. And so yeah, so I want to bring that to my community, I want to see everyone that people would you know, forget or despise or not care about and be like, no, this is who you’re called to be and we’re gonna support you to get there.

Nathan Sack  07:46
So cool. So Michael, will you just along for the ride or?

Michael Miller  07:53
Okay, so I, like I told you before we started recording, I’m born and raised here. So I wanted nothing to do with urban core anymore. Like at all it, it ruined my family, between poverty and drugs, like I had no parents. So I spent a lot of time figuring life out on my own. So by the time everything came full circle, and I was ready to do this and get back into the urban core, I was kind of knee deep in it already, I didn’t realize it, I just got my degree. It was a wrestle between, because I hated math. So I thought I could be an engineer first. And then I realized all the math you had to do, I got to do it. I’ll be the first in my family to get a degree. So I did psychology. And then I ended up with a nonprofit as well. And I loved it because it was a lot of reentry, which is for those who don’t know, reentry, it’s about helping men and women coming back home from prison. And I love that part of it. What I did not like is the toxic leadership and the narcissism that was involved in that and how the nonprofit sector really functioned a lot like a corporate fortune 500 business, and you get so lost and trying to help these people, but you have leadership who doesn’t really care hit the numbers hit the grand number so we can get more funding. And as soon as you hit the numbers, who cares about follow up, that that’s really what the process was like. And so you had that you had that one end of the spectrum. And then you had another end of the spectrum with most inner-city congregations. Most of those men and women are treading water. They’re working jobs throughout the week. So what I tend to get to church on Sunday, Sunday is not really even a ministry anymore. It’s more about some kind of relief to go back into the work week. And so you had these polar opposites, churches not really functioning to the degree to where they should be or could be helping these people that are broken. And then you had the nonprofit sector where just a bunch of brokenness, people talked a good game to get in the door to get the grant money or the funding and it was just as ruthless as being you know, and a for profit sector. And I started realizing that but then also started realizing Kim and I had this crazy gift and anointing that we did not ask for. But I mean, I would literally just be in a grocery store and have young men who would just pour their guts out to me they just broke up with a girlfriend. And I’d have opportunities to minister to him again. And it would be super inconvenient because I was just trying to get mac and cheese to get the kids from crying at the house. And Kim had all these moms who looked at her like a big sister, almost like a mother figure. And she’s younger than them half the time and started realizing this is a really grassroot thing that the Lord is doing. And we can just keep trying to fit into the world and make money. Or we can learn to partner with the Lord and let the money come. We’re still waiting for the money to come. But what ended up happening for me is, I got this heart for reentry, and getting these men the skills they needed. And the women the skills they needed to get a job and get stable. And then think about entrepreneurship. But then that’s when it starts dawning on me. There are so many preconceived notions about life and how people can get on the straight and narrow. And I think Kim and I’s journey has been a little bit more like Joseph. And when everybody thinks about the story of Joseph to think of this, this guy became second and command and just great nation, but really what they, we all failed to really realize that was a systemic failure. That’s really parallel on the allegory now. So the way our society looks, because it’s his father who loves his son, but the other sons get in the way. And they hate him so much for all that favor, right? And he ends up being a king in a house that he wasn’t supposed to be a King in, he’s supposed to be in the house of Jacob. He was supposed to be king and ruler in there. But he had to figure out how to go into the world. And the Lord gave him plenty of favor and grace to do that. But he had to figure that out. You know, and so that’s really what I see for Kim and I is we have to figure a lot of things out, troubleshooting, like, it wasn’t cookie cutter, we weren’t able to plan everything out and it goes the way it’s supposed to go.

Nathan Sack  11:48
Thank you so much for explaining all that. Just to start up and, you know, kind of the heart behind it and some of the struggle. Because it really is, you know, a lot of times, the reason why we create these programs or these programs, these ministries is because there is a struggle, and we have a solution that would make this struggle, help people overcome that struggle. So what would you say Empire Dreams is and what is it not? So like, if I was to come to Empire Dreams, and I’m just a person who wants to get help, and I want some food is Empire Dreams is gonna help with that. I mean, I’m sure you could point me in the right direction. But that’s not the ministry of our dreams, right?

Kimberly Miller  12:27
Right. So we empower people to achieve the dreams that they have in any area of their lives. And so when you come to us, we’re going to build your whole person, like even we just finished this business accelerator, we realized we’re not just building businesses, we’re literally building people in a holistic manner. Everything from mindsets, mentalities, home life, like it’s the whole person that we are building and that’s what really sets us apart in the business landscape. It’s, we’re not concerned if you come like, obviously you want, we want you to launch a successful business, but, but we’re building you as a person to be successful in every area of your life. And so yeah, when you come to us, we’re gonna walk with you hand in hand to achieve your dreams and goals in your life. And so we do in home life coaching, focusing on family stabilization, personal growth, professional development, and then entreleadership and entrepreneurial empowerment. We have moms groups, it’s our community support group we meet every week, break down social isolation, pull assets and resources in the community, raise up leaders and like mama leaders, but it’s really fun. It’s my favorite. Literally my favorite time every week is coming to our moms groups, and we just we become best friends and all our birthday parties are together, and we go on outings. So we have moms groups, I do an in school entrepreneurship, creative thinking program for the little ones. And then we have our business accelerator. And so a lot of what we also do is we do community engagement events. So we target low income housing projects. Also even on our own block. We do all summer long community engagement, but we bring the community together, we play we have fun, we find the gifts and the talents in the community and we build like real deep lasting relationships with the community. I just I went out once and you know, we raked someone’s lawn or know, like we get to know each other. Like I still connect with all my families for the last five, six years. And so and then through that, really engaging being with a community breaking down social disorganization through relationships through connection through joy through opportunities and resources, because you really need tangible opportunities and resources you got to have hope. You got to have someone to encourage you but then you really need the tangible resources opportunities to move ahead. But yeah, so we’re in the community a lot doing a lot of these events and that’s where the moms we work with come from for the life coaching because we played all summer you know, we connected we got to know each other’s kids, they have relationship. Yeah, it’s intentional relationship. And then and then you can really go deep with someone because they’re willing to be vulnerable. They’re willing to be honest, they’re willing to let you see everything, they don’t let a case worker see, you know, they’re gonna let you see all the things they’re hiding, right? All the incidents, they lie, right, they’re gonna they’re gonna let you see it all and but then you can grow with them and then you can believe with them. And I think that’s the biggest thing we offer is we believe in people. Even with our recent business accelerator, I think everyone wanted to quit at least once a week, there’d be tears, it’d be crying, there’d be Kim, you’re not quitting. I believe in you. This is who you are like. Right. And so, yeah, we just didn’t have time for that. We’re gonna do this. But that’s honestly that I think that the phrase I use more often than any, it’s, I believe in you. And, yeah, and so we believe in our community, and we see them for who they’re created to be outside of all the things that have held someone down outside the current situations, and we’re going to see them get there, regardless of what it takes. And honestly, it can be really hard, and it can be really long. But I think that’s what our community needs. It’s not just a program, if we’re going to invest in someone’s development. I mean, I just think about my kids. It’s a lot of investing in these little ones, they take a lot of time and energy and not saying our communities like kids, but even me like we all need someone to invest in us and believe in us and help us when we’re stuck. And sometimes we’re just stuck, especially with a lot of the mentalities and the powerlessness we address a lot of powerlessness in the community. And our whole curriculum that we’re building out is on breaking mentalities to change behaviors. And so yeah, so that’s a little bit what we do. Yeah. So go ahead.

Michael Miller  16:31
Oh, so I mean, a little bit more of what we’re not either is-

Nathan Sack  16:35
What are you not? You get the wrong phone call. You’re like, I don’t help you.

Michael Miller  16:40
Right. And so we don’t turn people away. But what we also have had to guard ourselves from is, again, this high level elitism that doesn’t get checked in the individual that mean well, so there’s a lot of guys who are in the Christian realm do business, but they’re so high level critical, like, we don’t disqualify the people, like in general, what you see a lot when people have a business ideas, you don’t say it, but you hint at it and other people, we can nod and shuffle their feet, and they know what you mean, when you’re saying all that business idea needs to be flushed out. And what we actually do is we flush that out with the person. And we don’t disqualify them, because I don’t think they’re ready yet. They don’t have any experience. Well, you’ve never written a million-dollar business plan before. All that kind of goofy stuff that is so commonplace. We focus more on, you haven’t. So how do we cut your teeth to do that? How do we get you to that place where you can one day, do a big business plan. And this is not something that’s so scary to you anymore, right? And we again, it goes back to experiencing a lot of those hurdles, where you go and get your degree, right. And you want this big fancy job, but people won’t hire you because you don’t have any experience? Well, I got to experience if you won’t, you know what I mean? If there’s not an apprenticeship, right? Or you can’t get the house because you don’t have the credit, like, what we don’t do is we don’t find reasons to disqualify people. Because they’re not ready yet. What we do is we find reasons to get people qualified. And that’s really a big mind shift. That has not happened in a lot of a lot of circles in society, namely in the Bride of Christ, and also in the nonprofit sector. So that’s what we are not, we’re not looking to disqualify people, nor are we looking to, to be toxic for people to where we just give them what they want. And they don’t learn how to figure life out on their own. So we do. So there will be times where there will be an emergency, right? Like one night, one of our moms got into a car wreck, right? And they’re freaking out on the side of the road. And so I’m up and I’m over there, I’m helping them figure it out until police and ambulance arrived. But to follow up conversation is okay, so how do we do this better? Okay, we get roadside assistance, right? We get some kind of Jack in our car, right? If it’s a flat tire, we don’t just go panic mode, we make sure we insure against that, right? And you’ll be surprised how many people have never heard of roadside assistance. Like in urban core. Like, again, it’s such a mentality.

Nathan Sack  19:08
I regularly use roadside assistance.

Michael Miller  19:12
But people in urban core don’t think about that. They’re like, huh?

Nathan Sack  19:15
It’s usually like $5 to $10 extra per month on your, it pays for itself. One time it’ll pay for itself.

Michael Miller  19:24
It will, it will. So that’s kind of what we’re not like. So what we’re not is we don’t disqualify people. And we’re not here to disable you or keep you needing us. We’re here to what the point is, you don’t need us in two to three years, you’re doing your own thing. And you just keep in touch with us because of relationships there.

Kimberly Miller  19:40
And actually, that’s kind of my motto with like the nonprofit sector. We should all be working ourselves out of a job. A program or an organization is truly successful when it’s no longer needed. And what we do, however, in the nonprofit sector is we want to keep existing so we keep having to get more money and all these things and so yeah, I’m successful, and you don’t need me anymore when you’re just soaring when our communities thriving, and so, yeah, we still want that relationship forever. But yeah, but we shouldn’t need be needed anymore.

Nathan Sack  20:13
Yeah, there’s a there’s a, I think it’s either Alzheimer’s or some part dementia, dementia or Alzheimer’s disease or something like that there’s their mission statement, their vision statement should say, vision. Their vision statement is no more Alzheimer’s. I mean, they’re, if Alzheimer’s goes away, they’re no longer needed. You realize that. That business is no longer needed Alzheimer’s, helping people with that no longer needed, you know?  So like, you know, the mission vision of Faith Horizons is restoring hope and prosperity to Kansas City. If that’s done I will be very happy. It’s a very big, I think the vision needs to be big enough to sustain it, give it enough life, you know, there’s a lot to do. And so then you pick up different missions that accomplish that larger vision, you know, like what you guys are doing. So like you have different missions, like you’re, you have a business incubator or accelerator, you’re going into the low income housing sector, you’re creating relationships, all of those are different missions per se, to accomplish the vision of Empire Dreams. So yeah, so cool. So, on the low-income housing, so are you just creating relationships in low-income housing? Are you identifying like, issues?

Kimberly Miller  21:36
So both. What I did last summer is I because I know quite a few families who live at a certain housing community. And so there’s many, many issues with the housing, poor management, very unsafe housing, just not taken care of in our community. So the local company is not taking care of the housing, there’s mold, there’s infestations, there’s things breaking, I mean, and so what we did to build relationship as me and one of my mama’s, we went and knocked down 160 doors twice. But um, and we did a housing petition. So we took pictures, we got videos, we got testimony, and we addressed all the housing needs in each unit, and then advocated for the tenants with the property management company. And so from that, when we were went in and started doing weekly activities with the kids, and with the community, it was like, oh, I remember you like you, you stood for us, like you, you advocated for us. And we formed like a little parent leadership team to address like, the needs in the community, related to housing and so, so yeah, so we build relationships, but in doing that, you identify the needs of the community. And then so you call out the strains, but then you see a lot of the issues that you’re able to step in and address and bring, you know, support to advocate with this. We advocated for the housing, so it’s kind of both I mean, and then when I work one on one with a mom, I mean, we work on everything, I mean, whether it’s budgeting, or you need a job, or you need childcare, or there’s domestic violence going on, there’s an addiction, you know, whatever it is, there’s anxiety, like we’re gonna cover whatever is going on and bring forth practical action plan to see linear growth.

Nathan Sack  23:20
So from what I’m hearing, like from what I’m hearing of what you’re saying is with like low-income housing, it seems like this is almost like something that you’re creating, or you’re working through, like that’s how programs are created. Like hey, we’ve got a problem. Let’s see what works kind of what works and so it seems like something that you know, once you get it established, it would be like duplicatable. Oh, we’ve done that before. Let’s go down this road.

Kimberly Miller  23:47
Yes, that’s the whole idea is to create a replicated, replicable, replicable model, especially working with the low-income housing communities, because there’s a lot of social disorganization. Crime and violence is one of the biggest issues at Blue Valley right now. Lots of shootings, just a lot of violence and crime. I mean, and so, one of the reasons the families brought me in was to address some of that. And then when we were doing like, our weekly events, the parents were like, this is amazing. And now, you know, people who are doing things they shouldn’t be know not to do it during this time. Right. And we’re creating, we’re building relationships connecting the community, to people that didn’t know before. And so, yeah, so a lot of the struggles we see in the community can just be addressed, because you got to know your neighbor, and you see them in a different light.