Nathan Sack  00:24
Thanks for joining us for another Faith Horizons podcast. The purpose of a Faith Horizons podcast is to discover the kingdom of God in Kansas City one conversation at a time. I had a great interview with Ray Maybion, who is a founding pastor of Bethlehem Kingdom Center, located on 28th and Forest. Bethlehem Kingdom center was originally started in 1984. And for so many years was known as Bethlehem Christian Assembly. It has also been known to many in Kansas City, as the KC Prayer Dome. In this conversation, you will learn how Ray Maybion came to set up this ministry in one of Kansas City’s most crime ridden neighborhoods. You will also get great insight on how the church can interact with their communities in order to facilitate Kingdom change. Have you ever wondered what an apostolic center is? Bethlehem Kingdom Center, which is an apostolic center intentionally operates in the seven mountains of Kansas City, advancing the kingdom of God in all spheres of influence. You are really in for a treat. Here is my interview with Ray Maybion. You started this ministry in 1984-Yes. And I was born in 84. So I was being born into this world while I don’t know. So just give us a little bit of background on how this all started.

Ray Maybion  02:02
Yeah. Well, Nathan, I, first of all, I appreciate the you know, the idea of being able to talk to you today. I had an idea that I wanted to see a change in ministry. Why I don’t know, it was just it was in me, never wanted to preach, never wanted to be a part of a church never wanted to do that. But, but God was pushing me and what ended up happening, I had an idea that I wanted to see change. And I said, well, how are we going to put this together? So the Lord sent me after seminary to an apartment complex. And I thought, oh, this is great, because this isn’t church. This is something that’s unique, something different. And so He put me in an apartment complex. What I didn’t know that it was an apartment complex with prostitution, drug addiction, and whoremongering, lying and stealing, and just total devastation. People who lived in the world system and on the low end of the world system. But I was able to, to be given a room and an apartment building. And I said, this is the best place to start a ministry right in the middle of the people.

Nathan Sack  03:18
Yes, that’s so true. So often, you know, you get you, you put the right person in the right place, and then that person is able to see, experience and then begin to create. Maybe even the Holy Spirit begins to open up His solutions to the to the problem.

Ray Maybion  03:35
Yeah, that’s exactly right. And it’s a step-by-step process. It didn’t like you had an idea and you knew how to handle it, you had to experience all the ups and downs of a particular area, particular people, because you don’t know the whole total story. Coming out of the seminary, I was, I was taught to be church minded. And I was looking for a church where I could minister in the church, with church people, but God for me, went a different direction. So I came back out of the church. And at that time, I came out of the Baptist seminary, but still, in my own mind, that was something missing. And I wanted to be a part of that missing piece.

Nathan Sack  04:17
And so we’re on 27th and 28th, or 27th, and Forest at the Bethlehem Kingdom Center right now. Where was this apartment that you first resident?

Ray Maybion  04:29
Yeah, the apartment building was at 27^th and Troost. It was 2732 Troost. And it’s interesting. The church over here we one block over 2732 Forest. But we started at 2732 Troost. Well, when I when we first got to the area, the area was very alcoholism and drug addiction. Prostitution was a major focus in this area. And I said Lord, you know, we don’t want to be here. We need to get out of here. And yet the people embraced us. Here we were non- we didn’t we didn’t participate in their in their particular lifestyle. But we brought the church lifestyle into a group of people who in the back of their minds had grown up understanding who Jesus was. They just had a lifestyle that was of the world. And so we, we began to develop. I said, well, what can we do? My wife and I said, we don’t know. So I said, well, let’s start with a Bible study. So we had a Bible study in one of the apartment buildings. Now keep in mind, Nathan, when we first got here, this place was rough man. You had license plates that came from Johnson County, you had license plates that came from Lee’s Summit, you had license plates that come from North Kansas City, this was a hodgepodge for people around the city would come because of drug addiction because of the prostitution. It brought people into this area, who were not a part of this area. That’s the first thing that we recognize, I said, where are all these people coming from? And it was all different colors, black, white, Hispanic, it didn’t matter. I said, we got a multitude of people in this area that don’t belong in this area. But there was things in his area that they needed. And so when we saw that that was our first prayer, you know, to, for the Lord to reveal to us, what is this?

Nathan Sack  06:16
Wow. And so how did the Lord, open your eyes on that?

Ray Maybion  06:20
After we prayed, He said, Raymond, he says, this is the way the church is, this is the way the church is going to become, because they’re doing it in a worldly sense. But my purpose is for the spiritual part that come forth, where you have the different races and different parts of the country, where you had the different people that were doing things for the kingdom instead of things for, for the world. And He says, this charge the church that you’re pastoring, which I had only been here a couple of years, I mean, a year, you know, we’re just getting started. But we pioneered the church. He said, you are an apostolic church. You are, you have an apostolic call. You are a church planter. And He said, you’re planting a church right in the midst of this turmoil. And He says, what’s going to happen, you’re going to change it. And He says, you are what they call a trunk church. I said, what’s the trunk church Lord, He said, you represent the torso. He said, You’re a torso church. And He said, the arms and the legs, and the head will connect with you down here. Head being Jesus, arms being other ministries, legs being other ministries that will connect to the torso church because you guys are going to be here to connect other ministries together. So you’re a foundation, a foundational ministry for the church of Kansas City.

Nathan Sack  07:45
Oh, yeah, that’s absolutely, yeah.

Ray Maybion  07:46
That’s what He told me. And I said, Lord, what are You saying to me? I said how in the world can we do this? And He told me, you can’t. But I can. And so that’s, that’s the story of the church, which means and we were trying to get out of here, we were saying, look, we got to get out of here. People don’t have money. How can I build a church? How can I ever get a salary? How can I ever, ever get people to come into this house? And how can we ever get a change because they don’t have it? They don’t have the money. They don’t have the skill. They don’t have the know how they don’t know anything about church. For instance, we were leading praise and worship in an apartment building. And they came in off the street and said, is it time to receive the Lord and I said we’re having praise and worship. I haven’t preached yet. He said, but I want to receive Jesus and I thought, this is strange it’s weird. Well, we just stopped the singing this okay will lead you to the Lord, we led them up the Lord right then and they got happy and left and and we were back sing and praise and worship, again, that we said, what just took place.

Nathan Sack  08:48
So one of the things that you just brought up, I just think that’s so cool that all of you begin to attract people that have a need, they have a need, because they need they need Jesus. And then you know, sometimes people don’t realize any Jesus until they like, oh, wow, that’s Is that what that is, you know, anyway. But there’s a there’s an emptiness, there’s a void in a human being that they need Jesus. And then one of the things that really kind of stood out to me was-is you talking about this area was attracting the whole city to it for reasons other than a good reason. So they had a negative reason why the people were coming here. It’s not like they’re coming down here because there’s a good jazz club because there is good jazz clubs in Kansas City. But they’re coming here for other reasons. But God said, We need- what God wanted to do with you and what kind of started opening your eyes to possibly I mean, you can speak to this as you know, we want to attract people to this area for Kingdom purposes.

Ray Maybion  09:47
For Kingdom purposes. That’s it. That’s exactly right. And they would come from different parts of the city.

Nathan Sack  09:51
Yeah. And I actually I mean, I can be a witness to that and I come all the way from Red Bridge and Grandview and I got connected here and I would say, you know, I mean a lot of what you know connected us was through, you know, God’s Relay Race, but that connected us and then other people are coming down here from other parts of the city now. It’s incredible. It’s a coming together.

Ray Maybion 10:12
Everything that God does, He orchestrates for purpose. And again, you know, I never would have known you if he hadn’t been coming through another ministry that was here. And so here we are today on the, you know, on the microphone talking because of that, if anything we put together, you know, it’s interesting, we’re located at the 28th and Forest now 2732 Forest, and yet, we started on the apartment complex, but we were given this land is by grace, the God blessed us because we were here, and that’s one of the areas that I hang heavily on, when God has something for you, He will bring it to you. You don’t have to fight for it, you don’t have to go looking for it, He will bring it right into your hands. And that’s what He did here. He brought it into our hands, and then we have built what He gives us, and then we build with it. And that’s exactly what, you know, what we do here.

Nathan Sack  11:04
That’s awesome. Yeah, you know, on my way here, I was driving in and I don’t know what it looked back, like back in 1984. You know, but I just see the amount of the, in this neighborhood alone, just the amount of restoration of the of the old buildings and, and then the building of new buildings. And it’s just like, the whole area is just kind of like being operated on right now. And, you know, for new population in new life. And yeah, and that’s, I mean, really talk about it, an epicenter, you know, for this city, you know, it’s just I, it always excites me to see that type of thing happening in an area.

Ray Maybion  11:47
Let me give you insight. We were, we were in the dome, we had already built the dome. And this is like 91, this is 1991 we had built the dome and things were going good.

Nathan Sack  11:58
I think I was seven.

Ray Maybion  12:01
You were seven then, okay you were growing up. So we got the dome build. And in the morning time we’d have prayer, it’s 6 o’clock in the morning. And you know, as a result, there was the liquor store on the corner, there was a liquor store across the street and the drug and alcoholic people would come through the alley and go into the liquor store to get their fix. And they were selling drugs in the area. And so I was in in the room and we were praying, so Lord, please Oh God, would you please close the liquor store down? Father, will you please close it down? You know, we’re here trying to build for You God. And we can’t do that with all these alcoholics and drug addicts. People run around the building run around them the you know, the streets. And so the Lord stopped me. He said Ray hold it, hold it, hold it. He says, do you know the man that owns a liquor store? And I said, no, I don’t. He said, well, why are you trying to close him up? I said, well, I said, he’s bringing bad things to our people. He said, No. He’s feeling a need to the people in the area who are requiring a need. So he is a good businessman, isn’t he? And I go, well, yeah, he is. He said, well, why don’t you go over and quit praying to shut him down? And why don’t you go over and introduce yourself to him? And I said, are you serious, Lord? And he said yeah, go introduce yourself to him. So I had to get up off my knees praying about him closing him down. And I went over and met him and his name was Mike. I said, Mike, how’s it going? He said, and don’t you tell him what you do. And I said, my name is Raymond Maybion. And then I’m, you know, part of the community. I just want to come and introduce myself to you. Beautiful brother, he said, Raymond, glad to meet you. And we shaking hands and all of that. And so I began to walk around the store. And when I walked around the store begin to pray. I said, Lord, I just pray and I wouldn’t pray loud. And I would just every morning, I would go through the store, and I’d buy orange juice, and I began to have a conversation with him. He was getting ready to get married. And he was concerned about the drug addiction. He was concerned about the alcoholism. He said, I don’t know how we’re going to stop this. I said, but you, I started saying you you’re keeping it going. But he’s, he said, he said, I want to see these people change. He says if I could just if I could just do something that would help them. I thought, shut the store down, you know, but God said no, don’t forget, he’s a good businessman. All right. That’s what He told me. He said he is a good businessman. So we became friends. And we shared with each other. And then we had already started the health agency. And I told him that I would like my people to get their checks cashed over there. And so he opened up the door for that. And Billy Graham came into town. So Billy Graham crusade, and I can’t remember exactly the year now because it was in the 90s, early, early 20s. I mean, 2000. And when Billy Graham came in town, there was a poster that we had. We were having prayer city wide prayer over here on Thursday morning, and the guy brought me some posters, and I took a poster around and took the poster over to the liquor store and put it up. And there were those guys that were coming in to buy alcohol remember Billy Graham. And we began to have a conversation with the guys as they had their bottles in their hands and their little sacks under their arm,  about Billy Graham, and they were talking about their mother had been saved to Billy Graham or their uncle had been saved to Billy Graham. And we were able to create dialogue in a liquor store regarding Billy Graham and the love of the Lord. And these brothers began, I saw the people in a different light. I said, these people have giftings they have they have ideas about God, they have they have they understand who Jesus is, I said, they just don’t go to church. And, and then many of them said, we know who you are. And I said, okay, who am I. They said you are the spaceship pastor. I said- so I said, okay, why you call me the spaceship pastor? They said, well, you are the pastor of that dome over there. And that dome, when we get drunk, it looks like a spaceship. And they said, one day that spaceship is going to take off, and go up. And he says, when it does, I want you to come get me. And then every time I go there and talk with these guys, I come up with revelation that God is speaking through them. And I thought back probably about 6 years to 8 years before they said that, I was at a church and a group of prophets had gathered around me and said, your ministry is going to be like a spaceship. I mean, this before the dome before the, you know, 27th Street. And they said it’s going to hover on the ground for a long time, and then it’s going to take off. So the drug addicts and alcoholics gave conformation to my ministry, to the word of prophecy that I had received 8 to 10 years ago.

Nathan Sack  16:40
So God was confirming, confirming, spoken to you years earlier with these people who are of the world and had individual callings, and, you know, on their own lives.

Ray Maybion  16:53
So He taught me at that point, that the giftings of God are without repentance, and so, the church, our job is to get these people to bring them into His kingdom, He needs them.  He didn’t need a whole lot of good people, He needs people who have the giftings of God that He has given them. And many of them are in bondage in Egypt and that’s what he began to tell me. He said, I’ve seen the affliction of my people in Egypt, have compassion on them. And He said, I want you to begin to bring them out of Egypt. And so we began to start then praying for the atmosphere in the area, because we found out that the spirit of the mafia had covered this area. So then our battle is not the flesh and blood anymore, but with principalities and powers that are controlling the area.

Nathan Sack  17:43
Yeah, that’s so true. I remember having more than one conversation with you about this. I just thought it was very unique that you chose to take a different route when addressing a problem. Like, you know, you just talked about the liquor store with Mike. And, you know, you went met Mike, you made friends with Mike and you know, then you were able to start creating influence, but also, you know, it’s not the see, it seems like the person is the problem or the building is the problem. But really, you know, we talked a little bit about the principalities. So how does a principality or the enemy system of government get control or some type of greater influence over an area?

Ray Maybion  18:31
You know, it’s very interesting, Nathan that you would bring that up, because you’re right, it’s government. When we came into the area, the government of the mafia had been set up in this area, which means that it drew the mafia draws the prostitution, it draws the drugs, it draws in all the infection, it draws all the negatives of society because the mafia is in control, which is a spirit of bondage. Okay. So what you’re dealing with is the spirit of bondage. So when we came in, we said, okay, Lord, we want to pray after we had seen all this after we had heard that clearly what God was doing, and we could see that it’s not the people. We say, Lord, how do You want us to pray? And He said, but you have to you have to unbuckle the spiritual control. He said, because we’re control. First of all, you have the satanic spirit, which is the big the big overall second, second heaven reign. And then he has his principalities, which he puts over, over regions, which he puts over states over countries, then you have, you know, principalities, then you have the demonic realm. That’s that the co- controls all the negatives that go on in a society. You remember when Daniel had to fight the Prince of Persia, but he’s praying but when the answer came, the Prince of Persia was fighting the angel to bring the answer. So we found out that through this we began to start praying for that demonic realm. We began to start saying, Lord, we don’t come against the people anymore. Father there’s a spirit of alcoholism. that controls this area and we bind it, we come against it, we you know, we there’s a spirit of drug addiction that’s over this area. There’s a spirit and then these all these are under the spirit of bondage. So you have the spirit of bondage, which was out of the spirit of bondage, you have prostitution, you have drug addiction, you have alcoholism, you have all these other things that come in, you know, anger, murder, all those things come out of that mafia spirit. So for this particular area, all of it was there. I mean, you had murders around here all the time. I mean, murders in the apartment complexes over there murders in this apartment complex here. We can’t stop that. It’s a spiritual thing. Just like the murders that are going on in the city today. You can’t stop it, because why you trying to stop it over here it pops up over there. So we began to pray for the area. And before you know it, you begin to start seeing things loosening up. On Saturday, I would have Bible study with the alcoholics who would come over with their bottles, and we will sit outside and have Bible study, they would park their bottles like you park a car, and they would come up and we would have a nice time having I preach to them, and we’d have Bible study. And then they would get when they get up. They said, well, we had a good time, they would pick the bottles up. One day, a guy had put his bottle in the poison ivy, and I will never forget this and I made a message out of it. He says, hey pal, he called me Rev. Hey, Rev that’s what they call me. Hey, Rev my bottle was in the poison ivy. And I got poison ivy around my bottle. I don’t want my bottle anymore. I’m a leave it right there. And I made a message poison ivy around the bottle. He had parked his bottle in the poison ivy and he said, I don’t want it anymore. And so we begin to see them and rejoice. And on Saturday, they would meet me, and I would be dedicated to meet them out here at 11 o’clock. We’d have Bible study, and they bring their bottles, they would sit they had chairs out there. And that was their church. So I started a church with alcoholics on the Sabbath.

Nathan Sack  21:53
That works, it works. It works. So just to bring it back. How does a church do battle with principalities?

Ray Maybion  22:01
Very few churches are what I call a spiritual entities that know how to rise into the heavenlies and begin to decree and declare. The apostolic ministry is one of the few ministries that come forth. You have the apostle, the prophet, the evangelist, the pastor and the teacher, which is a part of the fivefold ministry out of Ephesians, the fourth chapter, when you bring those different giftings together, then it says, for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, and the work of the ministry is to destroy the principalities over an area. Because we’ve been taken to work with the ministry is run out here getting people saved. Well, it’s not the people that need to be saved. Once the once the entity has been bound the people look for their Savior.

Nathan Sack  22:51
Yeah. So you know, Neil Brown, you know, Neil Brown. Yeah, good man, you know, wrote the book, Kansas City’s Redemptive Gifts. We recently had him on the podcast, one of the things that he was talking about was, or part of what he was bringing up or making a point of, we made a big point of was the wells of revival in Kansas City. So you know, what you’re talking about, just there even is just the apostolic ministry, is to release the captive wells that God originally put here, and then also, to release the people to their callings and their giftings and equip them to do what God called them to do.

Ray Maybion  23:35
That’s exactly right. For the perfecting of the saints. And that’s when you bring up the fivefold ministry together which will you have the apostle, the prophet, the evangelist, the pastor, the teacher is for the perfecting of the saints, which is for the work of ministry. In other words, the perfecting comes in that it’s like a broken bone that’s been knitted back together, and for the work of the ministry until we all become unified or one under the headship of Jesus Christ. And that’s exactly what’s what you know what’s taking place and if that doesn’t come to pass and the city can have revival, because the enemy is constantly fighting and keeping the city divided. The purpose of the enemy has to keep the city divided. Coronavirus divides people, it divides families, it divides churches, it divides you know people are upset because I got to wear a mask and all divides people. And what is happening, that the enemy is at work again through the virus. He does not want people to get together.